Rangers Fc- A Nation Mourns?

[yoda-jag]

Interesting to see that players and others who benefitted from the h u n s tax scam might well have to pay up. I'm starting, just starting to think that there might be justice after all.

 

Believe some more.

 

Jean-Alain Boumsong .....

“When I discovered it I first refused to sign the contract,” he told The Sun .

“It’s important to be able to sleep at night without fear of being chased by the tax office.”

“My salary was paid normally, but there was a trust. I was not comfortable with that, to be honest. I didn’t know anything about it until the day I was going to sign."

“When I discovered it I first refused to sign the contract and said: ‘what is this?’ I didn’t want to sign because it seemed strange, we don’t have that kind of payment in France and I didn’t know anything about it.”

Boumsong added: “When I left Rangers, for example, to sign for Newcastle, it was for a normal contract with normal payment but the day I was signing for Rangers I was told it was legal."

“I was not comfortable with it, because it wasn’t a normal way of payment, but I was told it was fine. "

“As players we don’t know everything about the law but my advisors said: ‘it’s okay, you can sign it. It’s legal’. "

“I wouldn’t have signed otherwise. If I thought it was wrong legally I wouldn’t have gone. It’s important to be able to sleep at night without any fear of being chased by the tax office.”

[Steven H]

I've previously stated that if Newco are voted straight into the SPL I would seriously consider chucking it altogether...and I would still be of the same mindset if they were voted into SFL1. What makes that any different in terms of sporting integrity to them being voted into the SPL? The only option is SFL3, don't care about any years ban or that, don't care if the 'discretionary' leeway is used to overlook them not having 3 years worth of accounts...all I care about is ensuring this game we all love remains a sport. If Newco get straight into the SPL Scottish football is no longer a sport, it's a sham. Many have posted the quote "if you look after the sport the money will follow you, if you look after the money you'll kill the sport", well vote a Newco into any league other than SFL3, by trying to look after the money they will have killed the sport (for me at least)

 

Someone asked earlier, "why punish Thistle for something that is outwith their control?". If I decided to chuck it then it will be with a very heavy heart, I love the club and it's been the ONLY constant in my life from beginning until now so it won't be a decision taken lightly. Why are we scrapping around trying to simply survive and plugging holes in budgets everywhere in order to live within our means and see where that takes us in footballing terms? Why would the likes of Beattie, Allan, the numerous and growing numbers of volunteers helping out the club keep on going when the glass ceiling is basically determined by who you are? How long have we known the SPL and it's 'elitist bullshit' has been no good for our game, infact in the case of some teams (us and Falkirk immediately spring to mind) it has caused them serious damage? If sporting integrity to does not supersede every other factor when it comes to voting on whether Newco goes into SPL (or SFL1 for that matter) then I will be at the 'what's the f**kin' point' stage...the answer to that question (along with the "why punish Thistle..." question) will decide whether I chuck it or not. Unbelievable or not, I think many of us (and fans of other clubs) will be of similar thinking.

[Mr Scruff]

I've previously stated that if Newco are voted straight into the SPL I would seriously consider chucking it altogether...and I would still be of the same mindset if they were voted into SFL1. What makes that any different in terms of sporting integrity to them being voted into the SPL? The only option is SFL3, don't care about any years ban or that, don't care if the 'discretionary' leeway is used to overlook them not having 3 years worth of accounts...all I care about is ensuring this game we all love remains a sport. If Newco get straight into the SPL Scottish football is no longer a sport, it's a sham. Many have posted the quote "if you look after the sport the money will follow you, if you look after the money you'll kill the sport", well vote a Newco into any league other than SFL3, by trying to look after the money they will have killed the sport (for me at least)

 

Someone asked earlier, "why punish Thistle for something that is outwith their control?". If I decided to chuck it then it will be with a very heavy heart, I love the club and it's been the ONLY constant in my life from beginning until now so it won't be a decision taken lightly. Why are we scrapping around trying to simply survive and plugging holes in budgets everywhere in order to live within our means and see where that takes us in footballing terms? Why would the likes of Beattie, Allan, the numerous and growing numbers of volunteers helping out the club keep on going when the glass ceiling is basically determined by who you are? How long have we known the SPL and it's 'elitist bullshit' has been no good for our game, infact in the case of some teams (us and Falkirk immediately spring to mind) it has caused them serious damage? If sporting integrity to does not supersede every other factor when it comes to voting on whether Newco goes into SPL (or SFL1 for that matter) then I will be at the 'what's the f**kin' point' stage...the answer to that question (along with the "why punish Thistle..." question) will decide whether I chuck it or not. Unbelievable or not, I think many of us (and fans of other clubs) will be of similar thinking.

I'm with you on the sentiment you express. There's been times in the past when I've been exceptionally angry about the sense of injustice to us, particularly through the SPL's ability to bend its own rules. The club that's benefited most from this in my view is Motherwell, but I've already posted elsewhere on that one.

 

For a sense of 'justice' to prevail then they need to be demoted. I think the vast majority of fans would agree with that (including many 'Rangers' fans). But the fact is that there are no rules in place for this, and it's a highly visible demonstration of the restructuring required in the Scottish game that there aren't.

 

I fully sympathise with the idea behind the notion that if they get voted back in then the game's broke. Bear in mind that if they do, it will be within 'The Rules'. I'm hopeful they don't, and that justice prevails, but I don't know that I'm optimistic.

 

I do know that I'll be at the next Thistle game (touch wood), though, with many of our small community of Thistle fans. We've faced adversity and injustice before, but I'm actually looking forward to this new season. If this new club to get voted straight in then any reasonable protest, short of boycotting my own club, I'd be happy to join. I do understand that a lot of people considering 'chucking it' aren't protesting, just realising that they don't want to follow senior football in Scotland, which is fair enough

[Gary Peebles Tackle]

The thing that's annoying me now is that the SPL vote is at least 2 weeks away (they need notice - surely they know what's going on!!!) and football in Scotland is in a state of limbo until then.

 

Why can't they meet tomorrow and have the vote? Waiting for the sake of waiting is simply absurd, but I suppose unsurprising.

 

They're talking about 2nd July - the Ramsden's Cup is on the 28th! How are teams meant to be able to prepare, sign players etc? It's a total farce.

[Lindau]

Looks like our boss wants the vermin in the SPHell 2 with us

 

http://www.eveningti...change.17908193

Edited June 18, 2012 by Lindau

[GrantB]

Looks like our boss wants the vermin in the SPHell 2 with us

 

http://www.eveningti...change.17908193

 

Some stronly worded emails whould be sent Mr Beattie's way. I'd chuck it for next season if THEY are put in our league.

[Gary Peebles Tackle]

Some stronly worded emails whould be sent Mr Beattie's way. I'd chuck it for next season if THEY are put in our league.

 

I agree - what's the point of next season if they are included? No doubt they'll keep most of their players and romp the league.

 

We've got a decent squad and without expecting promotion, I'm the most confident I've been for a few years. We need a better league system, but regardless of the system, they would need to start at the bottom.

[Steven H]

Looks like our boss wants the vermin in the SPHell 2 with us

 

http://www.eveningti...change.17908193

 

League reconstruction to aid Newco is still not right imo. Top 2 leagues of 16, bottom league of 12, Newco + 2 others into the bottom league (with a pyramid system below that). If Newco are as good as they think they're gona be then they'll only be out of the top league for 2 seasons.

 

Interesting that DB actually acknowledges the sporting integrity issue while Les Gray is all about the revenue that would be generated for his club.

Edited June 18, 2012 by Steven H

[Mr Scruff]

The thing that's annoying me now is that the SPL vote is at least 2 weeks away (they need notice - surely they know what's going on!!!) and football in Scotland is in a state of limbo until then.

 

Why can't they meet tomorrow and have the vote? Waiting for the sake of waiting is simply absurd, but I suppose unsurprising.

 

They're talking about 2nd July - the Ramsden's Cup is on the 28th! How are teams meant to be able to prepare, sign players etc? It's a total farce.

Absolutely.

 

There's that great phrase 'not fit for purpose' and surely this must describe the SPL's constitution/ rules if it doesn't cover this. They await an application from a new club. Then they must wait at least 14 days from there before the members meet to vote. This implies that they have no power/ desire to organise themselves for next season except waiting for whoever is in charge at Ibrox to approach them. What if they wait for another 2 weeks - in an effort to carry out further lobbying and force the other club's hands. Also completely unfair on the other clubs who might be candidates for Club 12 and the rest of the league structure.

 

This is why I do have some sympathy with the SFA trying to force through a restructuring of SPL/ SFL now. I'm assuming that doesn't mean league restructuring in the first instance but organisational, and that would enable demotion to be a mandated penalty (which it can't at the moment).

[Steven H]

So, in theory, what's to stop other clubs (all 29 of them) applying for the vacant slot in the SPL?

[Mr Scruff]

So, in theory, what's to stop other clubs (all 29 of them) applying for the vacant slot in the SPL?

Presumably you'd have to still be a shareholder to call a meeting? And there is still a company in existence that holds the SPL share, albeit one that is going through a process of liquidation. But this is one thing that the SPL board, setup in the wake of our appeals in 2004, was meant to streamline.

 

If it was the SFL, they'd invite applications. By not doing it the SPL are legitimising the argument that it's simply a transfer of an asset...

[lady-isobel-barnett]

I've previously stated that if Newco are voted straight into the SPL I would seriously consider chucking it altogether...and I would still be of the same mindset if they were voted into SFL1. What makes that any different in terms of sporting integrity to them being voted into the SPL? The only option is SFL3, don't care about any years ban or that, don't care if the 'discretionary' leeway is used to overlook them not having 3 years worth of accounts...all I care about is ensuring this game we all love remains a sport.

Sorry 'bout the selective quoting but there's one or two things I'm unsure of.

 

Firstly for consistency sake I queried the 25 point reduction that the SFL handed out to Dundee. The reason being that despite obvious forewarning the SFL clowns never had a set punishment in place. The 25 points reduction was purely arbitrary. I believe there should be a set points deduction for any team entering administration and further deductions reflecting both the time in administration and the level of the CVA payout. The second points reduction should be implemented the following season. If you think about it that would greatly reduce the possibility of a club working the system.

As regards rangers I'm no apologist for them and want to see them punished greatly but once again there's no rules in place and nothing in scale to reflect the seriousness of their misdemeanours. So why send them to the third division?. Obviously the answer is as that's the maximum that the SFL can punish them and more to the point that's been the traditional point of entry for a new club. All very well, but aren't the vast majority of us fans not sick of three divisions of ten and the mind numbing repetition that that brings?

I don't see why rangers can't be expelled from the current SPL without the SFL having to continue in its present destructive format just so that shower get punished with a three year minimum.absence from the top division.

Put another way I don't believe that any full time club should have to start out in leagues largely comprising of clubs with no ambition who by majority voting appear happy with the SFL status quo. If by only dropping rangers down one division it brings about positive change in the league set ups then I'm all for it and besides there's other ways the SFA can impose penalties on them.

[jagsman411971]

This is the perfect time for reconstruction, but it has to be for the benefit of ALL of Scottish football, not just the top teams.

[Jaggernaut]

What is in it for any SPL2 clubs? Unless there's a big wad of cash, is it anything other than just a change of name?

[Steven H]

Sorry 'bout the selective quoting but there's one or two things I'm unsure of.

 

Firstly for consistency sake I queried the 25 point reduction that the SFL handed out to Dundee. The reason being that despite obvious forewarning the SFL clowns never had a set punishment in place. The 25 points reduction was purely arbitrary. I believe there should be a set points deduction for any team entering administration and further deductions reflecting both the time in administration and the level of the CVA payout. The second points reduction should be implemented the following season. If you think about it that would greatly reduce the possibility of a club working the system.

As regards rangers I'm no apologist for them and want to see them punished greatly but once again there's no rules in place and nothing in scale to reflect the seriousness of their misdemeanours. So why send them to the third division?. Obviously the answer is as that's the maximum that the SFL can punish them and more to the point that's been the traditional point of entry for a new club. All very well, but aren't the vast majority of us fans not sick of three divisions of ten and the mind numbing repetition that that brings?

I don't see why rangers can't be expelled from the current SPL without the SFL having to continue in its present destructive format just so that shower get punished with a three year minimum.absence from the top division.

Put another way I don't believe that any full time club should have to start out in leagues largely comprising of clubs with no ambition who by majority voting appear happy with the SFL status quo. If by only dropping rangers down one division it brings about positive change in the league set ups then I'm all for it and besides there's other ways the SFA can impose penalties on them.

 

Perhaps my other post expands on my thinking a wee bit here, but to answer the question in bold, because they do not exist and are a new club. Like any new club looking to take up a vacancy in the professional league they should apply to the lowest league...you could argue why they should be accepted there ahead of Spartans etc, but lets not kid ourselves on, there will be a Newco in one of the leagues. I don't see it as 'punishing' RFC, that might follow Newco when the decisions are made re dual contracts etc...but I doubt it.

 

I agree re admin, you've banged that drum well over the last couple of years.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

What is in it for any SPL2 clubs? Unless there's a big wad of cash, is it anything other than just a change of name?

Again I'm split on this as basically an SPL2 doesn't offer up larger leagues. The plus side would be play offs between the two divisions and hopefully a more equitable spread of what little money there is.

 

Politically, and it sticks in my gullet saying so, most Div 1 clubs have more in common with the SPL than they have with most clubs in SFL Div 2 & Div 3. At present clubs like ours (Pars, Morton, Falkirk, Dundee) are dictated to within the SFL by the majority part time clubs who appear to be satisfied with their lot and probably relish the idea of our size of club being sucked down to their level. I realise it's not as simple as full time clubs versus part time clubs so I'm just generalising but I'd reluctantly have to agree that an SPL2 would be an improvement on what we have.

I've always hoped that the threat of an SPL2 would be enough to jump start the SFL into league reconstruction but I'm fast giving up on that.

Edited June 18, 2012 by lady-isobel-barnett

[Lindau]

http://www.bbc.co.uk...otball/18496571

 

I am not sure how they can escape all this (NOTE...SFA have said the delay in all this is solely down to non co-operation from the club!!!)....surely it will be a result for them to start in Div 3 rather than what should happen.....EXTERMINATION!!!!

Edited June 18, 2012 by Lindau

[Mr Bunny]

http://www.bbc.co.uk...otball/18496571

 

I am not sure how they can escape all this (NOTE...SFA have said the delay in all this is solely down to non co-operation from the club!!!)....surely it will be a result for them to start in Div 3 rather than what should happen.....EXTERMINATION!!!!

 

 

Yes but have you not noticed that when they talk of punishment they refer to Rangers FC - which is in the process of liquidation and so can't have any more punishment applied (though HMRC may pursue individual former employees/directors of the ex-club) as it will very shortly cease to exist.

 

However when they talk about joining the SPL, they talk as if "The Rangers" (the newco) are a continuation of old RFC and so have the right to vote in SPL, so have a history of accounts, and the history of the old RFC, trophies, etc.

 

Eveything is spun around to suit the occassion and they have the history/don't have the history, are a continuation of old RFC/aren't a continuation, depending on what will suit to escape punishment/get back to the top division in one bound.

 

Only thing at least whoever they call themsleves will be financially damaged for a long time and some of the old guard may face prosecution.

Edited June 18, 2012 by Mr Bunny

[Lindau]

Agreed Mr Bunny but all the hassle they have caused (court case about player embargo's) and now the SFA saying the club has not co-operated in any way re the EBTs + the fact that they are the biggest crooks in world football (and that says a lot!!) makes me think that they indeed are gonna get hammered!!

Edited June 18, 2012 by Lindau

[Steven H]

The SPL say Rangers will be facing charges in relation to duel contracts, if they are voted into the SPL then Newco accrue those charges and any punishments coming from them. Would be great if they got voted in then a few hours later kicked back out again as punishment for duel contracts

[scotty]

The SPL say Rangers will be facing charges in relation to duel contracts, if they are voted into the SPL then Newco accrue those charges and any punishments coming from them. Would be great if they got voted in then a few hours later kicked back out again as punishment for duel contracts

Is there any definitive answer as to what newco have inherited from RFC? They get Ibrox, Murray Park, the car park and (they think) the players contracts. The debts stay with the FC. So what does transfer over?

[Junior]

If they apply to transfer the SFA membership and SPL "share" then they would have to accept any sanctions against the football club formally known as Rangers - they are claiming that the company that owned Rangers went tits up but in effect the club itself didnt , but they cant have it both ways.

 

1 - If they say they are the same club , they get hit with every sanction and punishment under the sun for 10+ years of cheating.. Which according to SPL rules is the usually waffle of fines, points deductions, suspension or expulsion.

 

2 - If they apply for a fresh licence as a completely new club then they have to apply alongside Cove Rangers and Spartans for the vacant SFL3 position as everyone would move up a place.

 

Given the 10+ years of cheating and the complete lack of remorse or any sort of apology then as far as I am concerned **** them , kick them out and make them wait a year before reapplying.

 

The SPL2 nonsense should only come in alongside full reconstruction which is too late for this year. Take a season to sort it out , kick Zombie Rangers out to give them time to sort themselves out, If it means next year once everything is hammered out they end up in SPL2 then so be it, they have been out for a year and thats a decent punishment.

[Mr Bunny]

Is there any definitive answer as to what newco have inherited from RFC? They get Ibrox, Murray Park, the car park and (they think) the players contracts. The debts stay with the FC. So what does transfer over?

 

I'm not sure about the rest but despite Green's claims on the players I doubt very much they count as part of the assets. I'm pretty sure that once the club is liquidated they are out of employment and it is purely voluntary whether they sign up to the newco.

 

Not to mention the old RFC agreed they could leave in exchange for taking a pay cut earlier in the season. Not to mention the newco won't be able to afford anything like their wages (at least of their top players) so they'll have to negotiate new contracts, so again the players can walk.

 

If they try to make them stay agents will be hitting them with court cases and they can't afford to take that on.

 

I think all it is is Green is trying to talk up the assets he has (with players the sell-on value) to make any bids to buy him out bigger.

[Steven H]

Is there any definitive answer as to what newco have inherited from RFC? They get Ibrox, Murray Park, the car park and (they think) the players contracts. The debts stay with the FC. So what does transfer over?

 

What Junior said, the Club punishments should follow Newco Rangers. If their fans want to consider the history to be intact (i.e. 54 titles and counting bollocks that's being spouted) then they will obviously accept that the punishments for duel contracts and the one that is to replace the transfer embargo should also follow them. After all, the rangers fans are known to be a sensible group who are not hypocritical in any way.

Edited June 18, 2012 by Steven H

[afghan]

All very confusing. According to this http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18496571 Rangers get to vote on whether they should be allowed back into the SPL! Is this the case? I find it hard to believe that it would be, but there is little in this saga that hasn't surprised me.