michael m Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 I challenge One Thistle to take on board our views and opinions and fight our corner with the Board and highlight the dangers. This is also a good opportunity to see if One Thistle is seen as the real deal by our Board, which I think it has the capabilities to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennythistle Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 I challenge One Thistle to take on board our views and opinions and fight our corner with the Board and highlight the dangers. This is also a good opportunity to see if One Thistle is seen as the real deal by our Board, which I think it has the capabilities to be. I second that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Passenger Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 Thirded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindau Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 fourthed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven H Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 fifth'd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven H Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 (edited) Not sure if this point has been made previously, it probably has, but we have already budgeted for this coming season, we don't need the paltry sum we'd get with Newco in our league...which would be wiped out anyway as a lot of fans would walk away (leading to further years of struggling to make ends meet). So in terms of commercialism it isn't in our interests anyway. That leaves sporting integrity and the integrity/reputation/values on which our club is built and they are the ONLY issues which should determine Partick Thistle's stance. My clubs credibility is not for sale! Edited June 23, 2012 by Steven H Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennythistle Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 I wanted to see the support "united" this season and pulling together to achieve success on and off the park. Would appear, a good few of us are "united" and have put past differences between us, to the side and are fighting as one. It's heart breaking as to the subject matter and our possible actions that has brought this about! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Third Lanark Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 If we think what Beattie at Jags, Rae at Morton and Ritchie at Falkirk have all said the Cowdenbeath Chairman has gone even further in his statement saying he would be delighted having full houses at Central Park. As someone mentioned in another thread about a rumour of Rangers maybe attemtping to take over Cowdenbeath I wonder if this is perhaps a flawed attempt to save his clubs skin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exiled AusJag Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 I have been reading with interest the opinions on this this thread from the start, and like many others, am concerned that a newco could just walk into the SPL and first divison. Looking back several decades we have seen the demise of clubs old and new, with none, as far as I'm aware, being allowed to wipe away their debts and not suffer the consequenses. An example is Third Lanark, which had no sectarian following to generate a large income or influence opinion and I'm sure many people would have liked to see them continue, but were unable, and had to pay the ultimate price. Once a club has been liquidated, it ceases to exist. If a new Third Lanark was created (and I think one was, correct me if I'm wrong), they couldn't just walk straight back into the league. If Rangers supporters claim to have the best interest of a new club at heart, then they would support a new rangers from conception, through development to what ever success they wanted to achieve. But this newco should start at the bottom, the same way that a new Third Lanark would. I am interested to know if Scotland's football governing bodies have looked to other coutries for examples to help them, or have they remained blinkered abd inward looking. A level playing field HAS to be introduced into the Scottish game. It would not be re-introduced, because it has never been level. I believe support should be region, not religion based, and Scotland MUST look outside for guidance. Australia had a similar situation a couple of years ago in the Rugby League. Melbourne Storm was found to be illicetely operating outside the salary cap, and were hit with severe punishment. They were fined, stripped of several years premierships, and premiership points accrued during the current season they were playing were cancelled. The rest of the season had to be played, but if they won, still had no points from the game and finished the season pointless. What was interesting was that their fans still turned out to see them! I know I have raised this in the past, but one way to assist a level playing field would be to introduce a salary cap. All major football codes in Australia have the salary cap, and it appears to work. In the A league, Melbourne Victory were initially a strong club, but recently have faltered. Without a salary cap, they could easily have bought their way to the permiership. The past two years have seen Brisbane Roar as champions, but others have also won the premiership in the past, and now Brisbane's coach has gone to Victory. So it will be football knowledge, tactics and on field skill that will prevail, but with each club operating with a similar player budget, with one marquee playe allowed, e.g. Harry Kewell for Victory. Obviously the salary cap would be lower for the lower leagues, reaching the peak in the top division. That would prevent paying huge salaries for top players, but the league outcomes would be very difficult to forecast, and I think make the Scottish game more exciting and competitive. If Scottish football's going to reorganise, it has to be radical, and not just a different version of the status quo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bunny Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 (edited) More reasons for SPL and SFL chairmen to be very careful ... http://rangerstaxcase.wordpress.com/ (first paragraph's a bit stodgy but read to the end). Edited June 23, 2012 by Mr Bunny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stillresigned Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 Few if any subjects have arisen in the thirty odd years of being a Jags supporter that have enraged me so. This of Rangers, has unequivocally done so. I am not engaged in some kind of quasi-political or other campaign against Rangers or their supporters, instead I simply wish to see that club treated according to the norms and rules of football, which we lesser mortals have to comply with. If the powers that be whether they be the Scottish football authorities or the custodians of our own club fail to adhere to this cardinal rule of sport then they will have lost me. I can confirm that is some sort of corrupt gerrymandered scheme is put in place to put Rangers in Division One next year I will cease to attend games at Firhill, cease to be a member of the Jags trust and resign from the Scotland supporters club. Furthermore, I will cancel all subscriptions towards Sky. Quite frankly I am totally p*ssed off being taken for a mug and being treated like a fool. I really hope that the BoD's are taken cognisance of the comments on these pages as I for one am not making an idle threat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 This is just highlighting the difficulties surrounding this whole mess. RFC no longer exists as a football club. That company is about to be liquidated. The newco which has the football ground, the training ground and the car park have not shown that they are a viable company to fulfil a season's football fixtures with all the expense that entails. If they have a team at the start of the season (and from the noises coming from the employees of the old football club that's not too certain) will they be able to pay them? Will they be able to afford to play games at Ibrox? Can the newco even afford to keep Ibrox open? Any new football club applying to join the football league must show that they are viable. Will this newco be able to do this? These are all questions that the newco has to answer before their application to join the SFL can be considered never mind which division they'll be in. I believe that the SPL clubs realise this and like the cowards they are, are trying to leave it up to the SFL chairmen to bail them out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Third Lanark Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 (edited) I have been reading with interest the opinions on this this thread from the start, and like many others, am concerned that a newco could just walk into the SPL and first divison. Looking back several decades we have seen the demise of clubs old and new, with none, as far as I'm aware, being allowed to wipe away their debts and not suffer the consequenses. An example is Third Lanark, which had no sectarian following to generate a large income or influence opinion and I'm sure many people would have liked to see them continue, but were unable, and had to pay the ultimate price. Once a club has been liquidated, it ceases to exist. If a new Third Lanark was created (and I think one was, correct me if I'm wrong), they couldn't just walk straight back into the league. If Rangers supporters claim to have the best interest of a new club at heart, then they would support a new rangers from conception, through development to what ever success they wanted to achieve. But this newco should start at the bottom, the same way that a new Third Lanark would. I am interested to know if Scotland's football governing bodies have looked to other coutries for examples to help them, or have they remained blinkered abd inward looking. A level playing field HAS to be introduced into the Scottish game. It would not be re-introduced, because it has never been level. I believe support should be region, not religion based, and Scotland MUST look outside for guidance. Australia had a similar situation a couple of years ago in the Rugby League. Melbourne Storm was found to be illicetely operating outside the salary cap, and were hit with severe punishment. They were fined, stripped of several years premierships, and premiership points accrued during the current season they were playing were cancelled. The rest of the season had to be played, but if they won, still had no points from the game and finished the season pointless. What was interesting was that their fans still turned out to see them! I know I have raised this in the past, but one way to assist a level playing field would be to introduce a salary cap. All major football codes in Australia have the salary cap, and it appears to work. In the A league, Melbourne Victory were initially a strong club, but recently have faltered. Without a salary cap, they could easily have bought their way to the permiership. The past two years have seen Brisbane Roar as champions, but others have also won the premiership in the past, and now Brisbane's coach has gone to Victory. So it will be football knowledge, tactics and on field skill that will prevail, but with each club operating with a similar player budget, with one marquee playe allowed, e.g. Harry Kewell for Victory. Obviously the salary cap would be lower for the lower leagues, reaching the peak in the top division. That would prevent paying huge salaries for top players, but the league outcomes would be very difficult to forecast, and I think make the Scottish game more exciting and competitive. If Scottish football's going to reorganise, it has to be radical, and not just a different version of the status quo. Yep they are and I am pleased to say last year got promotion from divison two to the top divison of the Greater Glasgow Premier League and this year became champions of the Greater Glasgow Premier League a quite fantastic achievement. Needless to say plenty of old HiHi fans wish their club had been given the chances Rangers and Dundee have been given Edited June 23, 2012 by Third Lanark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Third Lanark Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 This is just highlighting the difficulties surrounding this whole mess. RFC no longer exists as a football club. That company is about to be liquidated. The newco which has the football ground, the training ground and the car park have not shown that they are a viable company to fulfil a season's football fixtures with all the expense that entails. If they have a team at the start of the season (and from the noises coming from the employees of the old football club that's not too certain) will they be able to pay them? Will they be able to afford to play games at Ibrox? Can the newco even afford to keep Ibrox open? Any new football club applying to join the football league must show that they are viable. Will this newco be able to do this? These are all questions that the newco has to answer before their application to join the SFL can be considered never mind which division they'll be in. I believe that the SPL clubs realise this and like the cowards they are, are trying to leave it up to the SFL chairmen to bail them out. Hence my concern though that if say they bought over Cowdenbeath FC they could use the Blue Brazils finances and their playing fixtures for the last 3 years to answer some of those questions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 (edited) I would accept Sevco 5088's.entry to the sfl division 3 if the following points are accepted. Election to be carried out alongside other sfl applicants. If successful, Transfer embargo until payment plan for footballing debts are agreed. Payments to HMRC to be made in a timelyanner. £1 million bond to be lodged with the league to ensure completition of fixtures. Finances to be audited by independent accountant. Fit and proper person tests to be ran on all newco board members. Agreement to pay all outstanding fines. SFA suspension until all points are agreed and adhered to. Even then I think they may not survive due to the mess they are in. I feel this is just the beginning of their end. Edited June 23, 2012 by jagfox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Incognito Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 Rangers are not going to SFL3. We can cry and whine about it all we like. it's not going to happen. I've got no problem with anyone pointing out how corrupt all this is: I draw the line at actions which will make Partick Thistle suffer. Most of the posters on this site seem to pride themselves on being cynics - you aren't, you're a bunch of romantics! It's the really cynical, harsh world of reality that David Beattie has to live in, so cut him a break. If it was up to me, Rangers AND Celtic would cease to exist, Sky would be banished from the world of football and Scottish youngsters would go back to being among the best footballing talent in the world. But then, I'd like world peace as well... Firhillista, I can see where you are coming from. There are far too many people getting far too carried away with making Rangers suffer and that appears to have become their be all and end all. However, the suggestion that the corpse of RFC be parachuted into SFL1 is an absolute farce and should be opposed. There is no precedent at all for it to happen. RFC no longer exists and this new club should be treated the same way as any who wish to play in the Scottish league system. In actual fact, allowing Newco straight into SFL would hurt Thistle because it would make it ten times harder to win the league and gain promotion, play-off or no play-off. A few days ago Newco had no desire at all to enter the SFL but now that it looks likely the SPL will tell them where to go they are suddenly sniffing around our league, like a nightclub drunk trying it on with a fat lassie after getting a KB from her stunner of a pal. Except, they aren't prepared to do things the hard way - the honest way - and work their way through the SFL, they want to spend the least amount of time possible in it (a bit like my metaphorical nightclub drunk and the fat lassie). And anyway, if Rangers are parachuted into SFL1 and if they - as they probably would - win the league and gain promotion to the SPL, what do you think the chances are then of the authorities following through on their suggested restructure of the league system once their cash cow is back where they want them? I wouldn't bet on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Dastardly Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 Rangers are not going to SFL3. We can cry and whine about it all we like. it's not going to happen. I've got no problem with anyone pointing out how corrupt all this is: I draw the line at actions which will make Partick Thistle suffer. Most of the posters on this site seem to pride themselves on being cynics - you aren't, you're a bunch of romantics! It's the really cynical, harsh world of reality that David Beattie has to live in, so cut him a break. If it was up to me, Rangers AND Celtic would cease to exist, Sky would be banished from the world of football and Scottish youngsters would go back to being among the best footballing talent in the world. But then, I'd like world peace as well... Just a few weeks ago, we would have been thought of as romantics for thinking Rangers would be kicked out of the SPL. Long live the romantics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bunny Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 (edited) I'd like to bring up again the point that nearly all the media, many football chairmen and assorted others are arguing the pros and cons of letting Club12 newco into this league or that. Yet it's possible - maybe not likely but definitely possible the newco might collapse before it can be put anywhere. They have no registration, no players and their ground onwership could be challenged. Apparently McCoist has been shooting off his mouth again, this time accusing the players of not being honest with supporters and telling them they should sign up to the newco. Of course they need the more valuable players signed up or the newco isn't worth anything without them - for their sell on value and of course they need players of any value to sign on or they can't compete in any league (and I'm sure Green sees this essential for selling the club at a profit). It would almost made you think McCoist had a promise of a cut in this sell off. On top of this how Duff & Phelps handled administration is to be investigated and who knows what that will do to the the right of Green to the ex-Rangers assets. There's a lot more to come out in the wash - in fact the safest thing the SFA could do would be to knock back registration and tell them to come back in a year after things have been sorted out. Edited June 23, 2012 by Mr Bunny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerryHell Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 I'd like to bring up again the point that nearly all the media, many football chairmen and assorted others are arguing the pros and cons of letting Club12 newco into this league or that. Yet it's possible - maybe not likely but definitely possible the newco might collapse before it can be put anywhere. They have no registration, no players and their ground onwership could be challenged. Apparently McCoist has been shooting off his mouth again, this time accusing the players of not being honest with supporters and telling them they should sign up to the newco. Of course they need the more valuable players signed up or the newco isn't worth anything without them - for their sell on value and of course they need players of any value to sign on or they can't compete in any league (and I'm sure Green sees this essential for selling the club at a profit). It would almost made you think McCoist had a promise of a cut in this sell off. On top of this how Duff & Phelps handled administration is to be investigated and who knows what that will do to the the right of Green to the ex-Rangers assets. There's a lot more to come out in the wash - in fact the safest thing the SFA could do would be to knock back registration and tell them to come back in a year after things have been sorted out. I'm very much of this mind. However, I really would like people to stop the nods and winks and actually tell us facts. Things have been alluded to on this and other forums, like ex refs with EBTs, people in the media with EBTs etc. I'd also like to know why the BBC couldn't (wouldn't?) name all the people that received EBTs. Have some of them taken out (super)injunctions, or some other legal fireblanket to prevent them being named? WHY THE F**K is Ogilvie still in his post? I think it is rediculous to pressure even the SPL clubs into voting on anything, then potentially pressuring the SFL to vote, nevermind reforming the entire structure of professional football in this country, when everything over Ibrox way could be about to collapse. Only once everyone is in full possession of the facts and there is closure on every aspect of the current goings on at Ibrox, should anything be put to a vote. Until then - suspend them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McKennan Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 There are far too many people getting far too carried away with making Rangers suffer and that appears to have become their be all and end all. Just for clarity's sake, what has Rangers suffered at the hands of other organisations? Ten point penalty for going into administration - the club's fault. Booted out of European competition - the club's fault. Liquidation after months of pfaffing about - the club's fault. These past few months there's been an insidious cultivation of Rangers' victim status. There's been quite a few things happening at Ibrox but the one thing that hasn't happened is punishment for its misdeeds. I have to wonder out loud what it would really take for the SFA and the SPL to take this situation seriously enough to start chucking the sanctions at Rangers they'd chuck at Thistle in the same circumstances. Folk see this. They see the leagues and the association bend over backward to keep some semblance of that b*stard football club in business so a TV deal won't be lost. Pleading, arm twisting, coaxing, cajoling - I'll chuck in bribery given the rush to league construction as if that will make it right. And some people wonder why other folk are ready to walk away from football for good? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerryHell Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 Would I be right in saying that the 'Sky TV deal' is just on the table and hasn't actually been signed? Therefor, there is no 'Sky TV deal' - just a proposal. Sort out this R*ngers Sh*te and either put the TV deal to tender, or sort out SPL TV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McKennan Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 Well MerryHell, if there's no Sky deal then a lot of people are getting their knickers in a twist over nothing. They're desperate to preserve what remains of one deal and have the Norman Bates of Scottish football back in the SPL wearing its dead mother's clothes within a season to make sure another goes through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted June 24, 2012 Report Share Posted June 24, 2012 I'd like to bring up again the point that nearly all the media, many football chairmen and assorted others are arguing the pros and cons of letting Club12 newco into this league or that. Yet it's possible - maybe not likely but definitely possible the newco might collapse before it can be put anywhere. They have no registration, no players and their ground onwership could be challenged. Apparently McCoist has been shooting off his mouth again, this time accusing the players of not being honest with supporters and telling them they should sign up to the newco. Of course they need the more valuable players signed up or the newco isn't worth anything without them - for their sell on value and of course they need players of any value to sign on or they can't compete in any league (and I'm sure Green sees this essential for selling the club at a profit). It would almost made you think McCoist had a promise of a cut in this sell off. On top of this how Duff & Phelps handled administration is to be investigated and who knows what that will do to the the right of Green to the ex-Rangers assets. There's a lot more to come out in the wash - in fact the safest thing the SFA could do would be to knock back registration and tell them to come back in a year after things have been sorted out. McCoist certainly seems to be acting from sheer desperation now; I can see him heading for some kind of nervous breakdown. You're right to remind everybody that the newco at the moment doesn't exist, and it has nothing, no history, no accounts, no ground, no staff, no supporters, no name. It's not yet a done deal that any newco will be playing anywhere next season, which is only several weeks away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackpool Jags Posted June 24, 2012 Report Share Posted June 24, 2012 McCoist certainly seems to be acting from sheer desperation now; I can see him heading for some kind of nervous breakdown. You're right to remind everybody that the newco at the moment doesn't exist, and it has nothing, no history, no accounts, no ground, no staff, no supporters, no name. It's not yet a done deal that any newco will be playing anywhere next season, which is only several weeks away. Correct, and now we have the farce of Green getting his knickers in a twist over players like Aluko, Whittaker and Naismith (quite properly) stating that they do not wish their contracts to be transferred to the newco. Green seems to have been given some half-baked advice that all player contracts are transferrable from zombie to newco. Well, that's undiluted pish: under Transfer of Undertakings, Protection of Employment (TUPE) regulations, staff can only transfer from entity A to entity B if both entities separately and simultaneously exist and a business transfer transaction is conducted on the basis of employees' pay and conditions being unaltered. Since pishco a) doesn't exist and have no chance (when they come into being) of honouring the current squad's Ts & Cs, Green is talking out his arrogant fat arse. I've no doubt that once Whittaker, Naismith and Aluko beat it there'll be an exodus out of Hunbrox by most or all of the 'name' players. That will give the world a truer look at what this shower will be made of - football wise - when the dust eventually settles. GIRFU them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindau Posted June 24, 2012 Report Share Posted June 24, 2012 Quote from Naismith "I am extremely proud of the actions we took but I am disappointed and angry that Rangers Football Club no longer exists in its original form." At last recognition from an ex player that the club we knew as Rangers is dead. NEWCO fans are gonna go bonkers over this....hahaha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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