Keeping The Manager - A Positive Reason

[Third Lanark]

2 hours ago, laukat said:

A few months ago firing McCall could have made sense as a new manager such as Neil Lennon could have arguably got better results with the squad we have and might still have kept us challenging for the title.

Now our targets have moved partly due to injuries and results, partly due to the finances then what we need from a manger changes. I suspect this summer will see an exodus of players and unfortunately its mainly the good ones that will be going and that again changes what we need from a manager.

So now we need a manager that will this season keep us in the top 4 and recruit a new squad on less budget that will still be expected to be in the top 4. 

If you stand back and look for managers that have cv of recruiting squads and making the championship playoffs then it would be difficult to find someone with a better cv than McCall. It would be too much to ask of  novice manager in summer to take over and bring in a new squad so we would be looking at a very small group of managers. Of those available maybe only Jack Ross has done that and he only did it once at St Mirren a while ago and he would probably want more than we can offer.

However we can't go through another period of mutiple consecutive losses so McCall needs to get points on the board this month otherwise he has to go. With 3 away league games back to back at places we would normally struggle to get points at its difficult to see how he stops the rot.

Assuming he is on a 1 year rolling contract and even if he does get back on track and get us to the playoffs we should serve notice on his contract in the Summer. If he does well we can always extend, if not it lessens the cost of making a change. If he does a reasonable job of revamping the squad it makes a more easier handoff to an inexperienced coach like Graham or Doolan.

After his antics yesterday not sure I would be in a rush to keep Graham in fact wouldn’t be bothered if he left but given his pal Ian gave a 2 year contract we are probably stuck with him which in itself is a farce as not convinced he has another playing year in him which in itself is a farce.

Likwise I don’t think Bannigan has another 2 years in him but due to the nice comfy pals act that this club has from top to bottom I remain sure he will get a 2 year deal in the summer 

[Garscube Road End 2]

Jobs for the boys chickens coming home to roost. Who would have thought? 

[sandy]

The ONLY reason in McCalls favour is that he’s not Gary Caldwell.

But he can still go cos we deserve better.

Edited February 5, 2023 by sandy

[Barney Rubble]

3 hours ago, Third Lanark said:

After his antics yesterday not sure I would be in a rush to keep Graham in fact wouldn’t be bothered if he left but given his pal Ian gave a 2 year contract we are probably stuck with him which in itself is a farce as not convinced he has another playing year in him which in itself is a farce.

Likwise I don’t think Bannigan has another 2 years in him but due to the nice comfy pals act that this club has from top to bottom I remain sure he will get a 2 year deal in the summer 

Wow!!

This from the poster who criticised GRE2 for being overly negative during last week???

What a difference a few days make.

[Auld Jag]

I agree that we should not be employing somebody as manager just because they have a current/past connection with Thistle. But surely if a candidate applies for the job as manager whenever the position is vacant they should not be written of just because of a previous/current connection with us.

[Emsca]

6 hours ago, laukat said:

A few months ago firing McCall could have made sense as a new manager such as Neil Lennon could have arguably got better results with the squad we have and might still have kept us challenging for the title.

Now our targets have moved partly due to injuries and results, partly due to the finances then what we need from a manger changes. I suspect this summer will see an exodus of players and unfortunately its mainly the good ones that will be going and that again changes what we need from a manager.

So now we need a manager that will this season keep us in the top 4 and recruit a new squad on less budget that will still be expected to be in the top 4. 

If you stand back and look for managers that have cv of recruiting squads and making the championship playoffs then it would be difficult to find someone with a better cv than McCall. It would be too much to ask of  novice manager in summer to take over and bring in a new squad so we would be looking at a very small group of managers. Of those available maybe only Jack Ross has done that and he only did it once at St Mirren a while ago and he would probably want more than we can offer.

However we can't go through another period of mutiple consecutive losses so McCall needs to get points on the board this month otherwise he has to go. With 3 away league games back to back at places we would normally struggle to get points at its difficult to see how he stops the rot.

Assuming he is on a 1 year rolling contract and even if he does get back on track and get us to the playoffs we should serve notice on his contract in the Summer. If he does well we can always extend, if not it lessens the cost of making a change. If he does a reasonable job of revamping the squad it makes a more easier handoff to an inexperienced coach like Graham or Doolan.

Why do we need a manager that will keep us in the top 4 this season ?

I would be happy if we stay in the Division if we get a new bold manager that will lay down a strategy and playing style that the fans can buy into .

[jlsarmy]

8 hours ago, Weebaw1 said:

If McCall and his assistants walk away now, they can hold their heads up as having carried out a fairly good job. He’ll be respected and will pick up another position. He took over a shambles from Caldwell remember.

He can’t take us any further and should therefore go now without waiting to be sacked and effectively stealing a year’s salary.

He did take over a shambles , got us relegated( wrongly ) , managed to get us promoted in a part time league and with the budget he has had I don’t think he has built anything on or off the park in terms of infrastructure.

Think we must be the only Club to get ourselves into financial problems again having had a lottery millionaire on board . Things have gone stale and we as a Club have to implement change .

[Lenziejag]

11 hours ago, Emsca said:

Why do we need a manager that will keep us in the top 4 this season ?

I would be happy if we stay in the Division if we get a new bold manager that will lay down a strategy and playing style that the fans can buy into .

Although, I don’t know the difference in prize money, the higher we finish the more money we get.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

3 hours ago, Lenziejag said:

Although, I don’t know the difference in prize money, the higher we finish the more money we get.

It may have increased but used to be trivial. That's money per place but perhaps the revenue and TV money generated from the play offs would be the bigger loss? If so then there may be a significant difference in revenue between 4th and 5th place.

 

[jagfox]

2 hours ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

It may have increased but used to be trivial. That's money per place but perhaps the revenue and TV money generated from the play offs would be the bigger loss? If so then there may be a significant difference in revenue between 4th and 5th place.

 

From 2018-19

1st place 562,000,

2nd - £475,000

3rd - £400,000 - 

4th - £325,000

5th - £250,000

6th - £225,000

7th - £212,500

8th - £200,000

9th - £187,500

10th - £175,000

[Woodstock Jag]

7 hours ago, Lenziejag said:

Although, I don’t know the difference in prize money, the higher we finish the more money we get.

I can't find a more up-to-date version on the SPFL website right now, but this one is fairly helpful:

https://spfl.co.uk/news/spfl-prize-pot-reaches-25m

This broadly tallies with other (more recent) information I've heard referred to, which is that within the top 5 the gap is about £80k per place of revenue, and that the gaps are then far smaller from 5th downwards.

[Lenziejag]

5 hours ago, jagfox said:

From 2018-19

1st place 562,000,

2nd - £475,000

3rd - £400,000 - 

4th - £325,000

5th - £250,000

6th - £225,000

7th - £212,500

8th - £200,000

9th - £187,500

10th - £175,000

based on that, the difference between 4th & 5th can’t be far off TJF annual funds available to Thistle. Although 4th would be a disappointing outcome for the season, it is still worth fighting for.

[Dick Dastardly]

On 2/5/2023 at 12:23 PM, exiledjag said:

I wonder how Ferguson would have coped7 with Keane, Beckam, Scholes, Schmichal, the Neville brothers and Bruce all out at the same time.

I agree with your latter point about planning to minimise the impact of injuries the problem we have had is the sheer scale of the injury situation.

There is clear evidence that IMC has done that since his first day in the job by focusing his signings players who can cover more than one position 

As far as I can see there is a huge element of luck in whether injuries happen in the first place and the extent to which they are serious - watch the highlights of the Hearts v Dundee Utd and the sending off of the United player.

As far as I am concerned IMC stays.!

Or perhaps Ferguson signed up Keane, Beckam, Scholes, Schmichal, the Neville brothers and Bruce because they wouldn't all be injured at the same time. Injury is partly luck, but also the training, conditioning and knowing when to play or not play an individual has far more to do with it.

In my opinion, it is not the number of injuries that he has had, and I am sure that some of them could have been avoided or resolved quicker, but one in particular. Scott Tiffoney. As an attacking unit, the whole team is set around getting the ball to Tiff and seeing what he can do. We don't have a second option and still play that way even if he isn't on the pitch, or fully fit, which he hasn't been for over a year now. When he isn't there, rather than changing the setup to a plan B, McCall's only thought is to put someone else in the same position to play the same role and that is just not realistic. The total reliance on Tiff is highlighted by McCall bringing him back into action before he is fully ready, and thus picks up yet another injury. This total reliance on one player and one plan is TOTALLY at McCall's door. 

[JAG1970]

41 minutes ago, Dick Dastardly said:

As an attacking unit, the whole team is set around getting the ball to Tiff and seeing what he can do. We don't have a second option and still play that way even if he isn't on the pitch, or fully fit, which he hasn't been for over a year now. When he isn't there, rather than changing the setup to a plan B, McCall's only thought is to put someone else in the same position to play the same role and that is just not realistic. The total reliance on Tiff is highlighted by McCall bringing him back into action before he is fully ready, and thus picks up yet another injury. This total reliance on one player and one plan is TOTALLY at McCall's door. 

Absolutely, been evident for months.

No fit Tiff = no hope. 

[Jaggernaut]

Having downed a few cans of beer (Yebisu: highly recommended), here's my (abridged) take:

1. There is no convincing evidence that we have made any real progress in terms of football and results under McCall since he returned.

2. After three years and many dreadful results, one might well wonder what's the point of this management team.

3. Qualifying for the play-offs must be seen as some kind of positive result. It's only the most exceptional team that wins automatic promotion. Getting sacked for not being "exceptional" would see most of us on the dole. The other play-off qualifiers  "have done well, maybe could go further," etc. We're in the running for that, and... just... might even get promoted through that.

4. Excuse me while I have another slug of cheap "Asahi Rich."

5. So, if we fail to qualify (or even now, as some people want), sack the manager and his backroom staff and take a chance on other options (most likely to be managers who got the bullet for their failures at other clubs)?

6. Both courses of action would cost the club financially (yes, I know that another season is this  backwater of a division will do the same), but is it really the time to sack the manager now, given the constraints that anybody in the position would need to work under?

7. Excuse me while......

5.

[laukat]

Have we considered that McCall may be a strategic and tactical genius who is lulling Sevco into a false sense of security?

Could it be recent losses to Hamilton and Cove are all part of an elaborate plan to bring the Scottish Cup back home to Maryhill?

[Dick Dastardly]

3 minutes ago, laukat said:

Have we considered that McCall may be a strategic and tactical genius who is lulling Sevco into a false sense of security?

Could it be recent losses to Hamilton and Cove are all part of an elaborate plan to bring the Scottish Cup back home to Maryhill?

Are you sharing Jaggernaut’s Asahi Rich ?

[Jimmy McD]

1 hour ago, laukat said:

Have we considered that McCall may be a strategic and tactical genius who is lulling Sevco into a false sense of security?

Could it be recent losses to Hamilton and Cove are all part of an elaborate plan to bring the Scottish Cup back home to Maryhill?

Wonder what the odds are for a Jags win on Sunday????

 

[Garscube Road End 2]

3 minutes ago, Jimmy McD said:

Wonder what the odds are for a Jags win on Sunday????

 

Probably a Zillion to 1. Just about right for the old unpredictables to appear.

[Dick Dastardly]

Our only hope is if I bet the mortgage on Rangers to win. And for exactly that reason my money stays where it is 

[elevenone]

2 hours ago, Jimmy McD said:

Wonder what the odds are for a Jags win on Sunday????

 

A measly 22/1

[CotterJag]

5 hours ago, laukat said:

Have we considered that McCall may be a strategic and tactical genius who is lulling Sevco into a false sense of security?

Could it be recent losses to Hamilton and Cove are all part of an elaborate plan to bring the Scottish Cup back home to Maryhill?

I can only hope, and I'm certain that we will, take this game very seriously on Sunday.

1. I'll be there

2. I've yet to see us score against them

3. There's no team I'd rather beat

4. It's been too long

If we beat Rangers and finish 4th in the League, I won't be too unhappy. Having said that, I think we've missed a great chance for automatic promotion and doubt this League will be as poor for a long time to come.

I'm on the fence as far as sacking the Manager goes and still somehow believe we can turn this round and give McCall his shot in the top league.

[Garscube Road End 2]

6 hours ago, CotterJag said:

I can only hope, and I'm certain that we will, take this game very seriously on Sunday.

1. I'll be there

2. I've yet to see us score against them

3. There's no team I'd rather beat

4. It's been too long

If we beat Rangers and finish 4th in the League, I won't be too unhappy. Having said that, I think we've missed a great chance for automatic promotion and doubt this League will be as poor for a long time to come.

I'm on the fence as far as sacking the Manager goes and still somehow believe we can turn this round and give McCall his shot in the top league.

McCall had a shot in the top league with Dundee United and wasn't altogether successful. 

[lady-isobel-barnett]

7 hours ago, Garscube Road End 2 said:

McCall had a shot in the top league with Dundee United and wasn't altogether successful. 

True, he wasn't by their standards. And he hasn't exactly been head-hunted for a top tier job since. At the start of the season I'd put myself in the McCall's fine for now but will have to leave/move aside if we got promoted camp. I thought the stability he brought and the players he was bringing in enough to give us at worst a serious go of winning the play offs.

Like a large chunk of the support I'm now seriously questioning his ability to get us promoted in a reasonable time frame (by season 24/25 at worst). Taking my viewpoint that McCall ultimately has to move aside, I'm still prepared to write off this season if there's financial and/or practical reasons to delay what I believe to be the inevitable. I'm reasonably happy to let those currently running our Club to make the decision. I cannot tho' disagree with the wide opinion that he would've almost certainly have been sacked under normal circumstances at other clubs. It's basically the uncertainty re "normal circumstances" that is likely to buy McCall some time. I'd suggest that "some time" is getting shorter by the result. 

Edited February 8, 2023 by lady-isobel-barnett

[Lambies Lost Doo]

Now I'm on the fence with this debate but to bring balance I'll have an opposite opinion.

McCall gets the club and suppport.  He loves it and most of us love him for that excluding the poor results of recent times.

He is proven to spot and attract good players.  This season we started well but have had major injury issues to deal with and lack of substantial funds to strengthen this mid season.  When we have out first choice XI, 433, attacking full backs and wingers we can match anyone.

The team this season is of a higher quality than last season and we could bring in more quality for next season.

I would argue he should change 1 or both assistants like Alex Ferguson did on a regular basis to shake up team.